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Monday, February 8, 2016

Is the Equestrian Park a good use of taxpayer dollars?

We have switched to a new blog format and you can find the most recent post about the Equestrian Park here.

What should be the future of the Salt Lake County Equestrian Park? The taxpayers of Salt Lake County subsidize the Equestrian Center in South Jordan $900,000 per year. Is that the highest and best use of this area and our taxpayer dollars? During the budget session last December I asked that our Community Services Department, which oversees the Equestrian Park, to prepare cost alternatives for the Equestrian Center.

The Equestrian Center has been steadily losing more and more money every year. The County realized a few years ago that something needed to change since taxpayers’ operating subsidy was increasing, so it awarded a contract to the very capable SMG management company. SMG currently operates the Salt Palace, South Towne Expo Center, and several equestrian centers around the country. Even after almost two years under SMG’s management, the park is still on pace to lose millions more.

There are significant issues with the park that are beyond SMG’s control. There is a serious concern with deferred maintenance. Over the next five years infrastructure investments from $3.5 to $4.5 million will be needed, including new stalls. As if the millions in deferred maintenance isn’t enough, millions more are needed for the construction of a new building on site to make the park a more attractive place to hold events.

Whenever I vote on anything that comes before the council or evaluate a County program, I ask myself, “Is this the proper role of government?” Our parks and recreation department is there to promote health and well-being for the residents of Salt Lake County, which is a worthy cause. We try to provide recreational activities to help keep our community active and healthy. We don't provide opportunities for every person's individual recreational preferences. What about water sports? What about snowmobiling? There are plenty of fun recreational activities, but taxpayers shouldn't and can't fund everything. We put tax dollars into amenities that are in high public demand, make fiscal sense, and encourage families to have healthy lifestyles. That is something we will need to look at as we explore options for this facility.

Parks preserve open space and are visited hundreds of thousands of times a year and can be used by all of Salt Lake County’s 1.1 million residents. Our golf courses are some of the best managed in the state and, in addition to preserving open space, turn a profit. The County subsidizes parks, on average, $5,000 per year per acre. The Equestrian Park is a revenue generator, but is being subsidized at $7,500 per acre. That is 50 percent more than the County subsidizes an acre of a public park.

Some may say that we should just invest in the Equestrian Park so that it will turn a profit. We will be looking at this, but preliminary numbers show we would have to put millions into the facility. Denver has a great Equestrian Center. Some have said we should invest in something similar for Salt Lake County. Denver put over $800 million dollars into their center.

I've had people say that the Equestrian Center provides other economic benefits that we just aren't considering - hotels, restaurants, shopping. We will have the economic impact measured in the coming months, but preliminary studies show there is a neglible economic impact. We are continuing to explore this.

Whenever an organization or program is overseen by Salt Lake County or any government we must continually review what the highest and best use of taxpayer dollars is and let that guide our response. I know the Equestrian Park is an important place for some of our Salt Lake County residents. We are looking for some answers and will be anxious to see the upcoming recommendations by the Mayor's staff in April. They will give us several scenarios and the fiscal impact of each. Personally, I will be doing all I can to keep this area open space. We will have more info in coming months.

Click here to read the Deseret News article on this issue

Fox 13 coverage of the Equestrian Park

Here is the budget line item showing the $900,000 subsidy:





Some people didn't believe that the Equestrian Park was really losing so much money, so I've included the actual 2016 budget:


64 comments:

  1. This is an interesting issue. Supporting an equestrian park with tax payer dollars does seem like an elitist misappropriation of funds. But my guess is that golf courses, from a purely fiscal perspective, aren't the best allocation of property and public resources. And Wheeler Farm? Imagine what we could get if we sold that property to a developer? How much does it cost us to keep it as farm? But the term "equestrian park" sure sounds like an asset reserved for the very few. I wonder what SMG's experience has been with the other equestrian parks it manages? If we repurposed our equestrian park, where would we put the county fair?

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    1. Fun Fact: Wheeler HISTORIC Farm is on the National Historic Register, the State of Utah Historic Register, and it is a designated County Regional Park. As a Regional Park, Wheeler sees over 500,000 visitors per year. As an educational entity, Wheeler sees thousands of students each year for field trips. As a public park it is just as important as Sugar House Park, Cottonwood Regional Park, or the new Loadstone Regional Park. Here is a list of why parks are important: http://www.bridgewaterma.org/government/depts/recreation/pdf%5CTop10-ReasonsParks.pdf

      As to the County Fair, it could be relocated to the state fair grounds. The Equestrian Park is a valuable piece of land, but if re-purposed, should stay a county property used for recreation- not sold to developers.

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    2. Hi George,
      The golf courses are revenue-generators, so we don't subsidize those and get to have nice open space.

      We are in discussion with the State Fair Park to use that facility for the county fair.

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    3. Hi I am a tax payer, I have a very good friend that has horses at the Equestiran park, I know that she also helps young kids learn responsibilities and keeps them off the streets giving them a sense of accomplishment, she is helping my boyfriends son, who is ADD & AUTISTIC find a place for his out of control actions, he is done so much better working with these beautiful horses, this park serves this tax payer. I don't agree that this horse park should be shut down, maybe focus on the good that they do!

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  2. If those with horses want an equestrian park, then t hose with horses should pay for it.

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    1. We do! Its not as if we get to ride there for free. Some could say the same about other parks. Dog walker don't have to pay to walk their dogs in dog parks.

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    2. Then I suppose those that don't use soccer fields, baseball diamonds, city rec centers, etc. shouldn't have to pay taxes for those facilities?? Your answer is short sighted.

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    3. If those with children/families (non horse people) want ANOTHER park, soccer field, etc. Let them pay for it.

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    4. Those who want to swing on swings and play soccer on grass in a public park, should pay for it!

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    5. It costs less for us to maintain a park or a soccer field, then the Equestrian Park. There is also a much higher demand for those types of facilities.

      Even with the small amount of funds that groups/people pay to use the Equestrian Park, we are still over a million dollars in the hole, with millions more in deferred maintenance.

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  3. "I do not believe it is the proper role of government to subsidize horse owners." How is it the role of the government to subsidize any other sporting complex, or park used for Soccor, Baseball, Football or for children to play on equipment that their family can not afford at their own homes? I am by no means against parks and jungle gyms for others, however I pay taxes and I use none of these things. The county/state maintains dog parks that do not turn a profit, skate parks etc.. that again I pay taxes and do no use or have children that use them. The Equestrian center seems to be mismanaged and underfunded, repairs and upgrades have been a long time coming. I would absolutely board there, if the facility was properly maintained and managed. It is purely my opinion that as the area grows, horse people are being pushed out and poorly represented in the state and local government. And again, just my opinion, from reading this post you seem to have already made up your mind.

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    1. It is much cheaper, per acre, for the county to operate a park, soccer fields, etc. than it is to operate the EP. They are also in much higher demand. Government can't be everything to everyone. I don't expect government to subsidize my skiing.

      I have made up my mind that the EP, as it stands now, is too expensive for taxpayers. Unless someone has a new funding source to keep it going...

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    2. You say you don't expect government to subsidize your skiing but, if you look there are a lot of skiing acres in the state of Utah that are on Federal Lands that could be used for better purposes in many people's opinion.

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  4. This is horrible! SL County's equestrian park could be a huge asset not to just the equine industry but the entire county. With proper improvements and management, it could easily be one of the top horse facilities in the region or western US. The lack of enough stalls for large world class equine events, for example, prevents selection of this facility by those shows. Other top horse facilities host events that bring millions of dollars in tax revenue (hotels, restaurants, shopping) to their cities and counties. Research into success stories of other equine facilities turning a profit needs to be done. Mismanagement will not secure profits and I have watched this facility be mismanaged for years. You're not looking at the whole picture here. As a representative of all county residents, shame on you.

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    1. We don't believe the EP brings in any significant tax revenue in the form of hotels, restaurants, shopping, etc. We are asking for someone to look at this and give a formal opinion, and can keep you posted on that.

      Denver put $800 million into their EP. I don't think you will find that taxpayers here in SL County are willing to do the same. We have researched how to get the park to turn a profit and will be anxious to hear from our Community Development Department on this soon.

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  5. I travel 40+ miles from outside Salt Lake County to your great equestrian park frequently.
    You have a great 4H program that uses the horse park often, and I get the privilege to judge them. When I drive up I don't pay to use the park, however I spend money purchasing food and fuel for my car.
    I also enjoy bringing my own horses up in the summer to use your race track because it is the closest to me. Again, I purchase fuel and food when I visit, and then also frequently stop at the western store on Redwood road before heading home.
    Every couple of years you hold a large enough show that we spend a couple of nights - spending money on a hotel room, buying a lot more food and filling the truck with fuel... again. My point being that a lot of money is being brought into the community, and the benefit of having the equestrian park isn't all visible on a park "budget".

    There are definitely some things that could be improved which would increase your direct income from people passing through making overnight stays. And having a clear, online, updated schedule that the staff stick too has its benefits also. I would be much more confident in making the longer drive to South Jordan with a horse trailer and buying a day pass to use the arenas if I knew that the schedule was reliable.
    I currently stall in Spanish Fork - I am from that area. The group down there is easy to work with, has a schedule online, and keeps up with improvements (we got new arena fencing this winter). Spanish Fork in return has many boarders during the winter, has trailers spending the night continuously as they travel through the area, and has their facilities rented out constantly (if you check their schedule there is 22 this week!). And because that schedule is easily accessible by anyone, it works out.
    Now the 4H program doesn't make a profit or come out "even" in any way on a budget, but the State continues the program because it builds and supports the community in another way.
    Having the equestrian park in your community is a good thing. It is a huge asset. You have a lot of potential to bring in business to your area. I encourage you to listen intently to the people who come to use the park. Give their ideas some thought, ask them questions. Find out how you can make more money from people like them.

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    1. I absolutely agree with you. Especially the updated schedule that is available and adhered to. I would not mind paying any type of fee rather it be monthly or at the time of the visit to make sure that when I loaded and hauled my horse there, there was in fact access. That has happened several times over the years that you get there and the indoor arena or other parts are not available and the schedule is not correct. Also, if income is an issue they need to collect from people who use it, this is overlooked a lot.

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    2. We don't believe the EP brings in any significant tax revenue in the form of hotels, restaurants, shopping, etc. We are asking for someone to look at this and give a formal opinion, and can keep you posted on that.

      We would definitely find another place for groups like 4H to participate.

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    3. I don't believe you've got the correct analysis on other revenue in terms of outise benefits. Spend a couple of days during a fair, roping, or horse show and interview partixipants, run a survey or actually hire an expert to determine where outside funds are spent. People travel from all bordering states to participate in these events and spend money in Utah on their way. Many stay in hotels from sandy, south Jordan and draper. My guess is that the majority of livestock owners that use the facilities live in the southern end is SLC valley moving to the state fairpark will increase traffic, pollution, congestion and risk. This idea is very short sided.

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  6. I use the Equestrian Center as much as I possibly can. I pay the per day use, fill up my truck in the same area, and frequently get lunch there as well. It's not specifically about the center, it's about the good it does for the community.

    This park has the potential to be a world class facility with proper management. Bring in better shows.

    I hear from others that it is extremely expensive to host an event there, so many people look elsewhere. I think a better profit could be made by looking into lowering the cost of each event. It's smarter to have 10 events at 500 each, than it is to have 2 events at 1000 each.

    How much do taxpayers pay to subsidize soccer fields, or football fields, dog parks? I don't use any of those, but I still pay for it.

    It's seems as tho you, Amy, wish to force the few Equestrians in this state out.. well just know that we won't go down quietly. :)

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    1. See some of my comments above to address your questions on the "world class facility"concept. You won't find taxpayers will have an appetite, like Denver did, to spend $800 million on the facility. We do have proper management. We have a great company who manages over EP out of state. They just don't have funding, and even with more funding we don't believe the EP would ever be self-sufficient, or even close to it.

      I don't want to force the Equestrians out. But we don't own and operate ski resorts. Not everyone's recreation can be paid for by government and taxpayers.

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  7. Year after year HUNDREDS of exhibitors come to Utah for the number one APHA show in the country at this equestrian park. Getting rid of this park would not only destroy the only decent riding facility for the county, but would not bring in the revenue for the hotels, restaurants, shopping areas and other businesses in the county. I know that several other departments lose money in the county every year as well, but there is no talk of shutting those departments down. Please see the following articles, and how much this park benefits not only the county, but the surrounding areas as well.

    http://instrideedition.com/2015/05/apha-exhibitors-flock-to-utah-for-premiere-paint-sires-classes/

    http://apha.com/news-landing/news-details/western-paint-horse-championship-rewards-zone-2-exhibitors

    http://apha.com/news-landing/news-details/top-20-apha-shows-announced-for-2014

    http://www.equinechronicle.com/10-judges-over-5-days-at-western-regional-zone-2-and-utah-paint-o-rama-in-may/

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    1. We are doing a study on this, but consultants have told us that there is not significant revenue from hotels, restaurants, shopping areas, etc. The 7-11 down the street probably does better because of the EP, but we aren't seeing an economic development benefit.

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    2. What about the Large animal vet clinic and service stations they to bring in tax money from people who use the EP

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  8. I don't think people are aware of all the scholarship opportunities that will disappear for a large group of kids if the 4H program is taken away from the equestrian center in South Jordan. My daughter is currently participating in a 4H riding club that has represented our county in a State and National level. We would see a large dropout rate if we couldn't use the facilities for our competitions or practices. The 4H program offers wonderful opportunities and scholarships for college. Please take that into consideration.
    If the Equestrian Center was upgraded and managed better, you'd begin to see more people and larger shows coming to town. There are simple other ways to bring in funds too. For instance, why the heck don't they invite food trucks to spend the day there when the facilities are booked with sports games on the field all day or our horse shows? Those are long days for many of us, which don't allow us to necessarily leave the Equestrian Center to get food, etc. All they'd have to do is ask for a percentage of the food truck's profit and you'll both benefit. Or improve the food service in the indoor arena.
    Also, the yearly fee for open ride is quite cheap, in all honesty. I don't know too many riders that would (or could) object to an increase in fees.
    We value the Equestrian Center and love the opportunities it has provided our kids. Riding is a sport that teaches so many valuable life lessons for our kids- in different ways than other sports. Please consider how many riding clubs would be affected by the changes you want to make.

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  9. Councilwoman, thank you for posting your thoughts on the subject. It is good for the equestrian community to know where you stand on this issue. I think in addition to asking yourself "is this the proper role of the government?" (which is fabulous and appreciated by the taxpayer", I would also ask to keep in mind that the role of the government is always to be the voice of the people. There is a significant amount of people who use, love and want this facility. It may not effect every resident of the county, which would make them indifferent, but it hugely effects the lifestyle of those who rely on the park (4-H program, for example).

    I would also just like to say that if you expect this facility to turn a profit, it should be treated like a business. From my simplistic point of view, it there is a serious lack of sales force and customer service. And at times, lack of quality product for the consumer. I know that as a citizen, I have a limited perspective and there is more to the story that can be solved by my seemingly simple solutions. However, there is definitely a solution that can be a good use of taxpayer dollars. And who doesn't love a win/win?

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    1. We will be looking at this as we make decisions down the road. I would love a win/win! Thanks for your comments, everyone!

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  10. Aimee. You neglect to mention how you plan to turn the park profitable. How much of the park do you plan to sell for development? Half? 3/4? Yes, you can set up lacrosse on a corner so you can claim open space? Are those 'exploratory' discussions in progress with selected developers yet? You also neglect to mention how much the park brings in? As incredibly over priced for the vendors as they are, events do bring in cash flow. Deferred maintenance, wonder why the county deferred it in the first place? Like the prison. If you eliminate the maintenance budget in a decade or so things fall apart. So income vs. expense is what? No boarders? Again, stop funding something and then 10 years later it's an immediate crisis and must be dive away with. Just be honest. It's prime South Jordan Real Estate on a major thoroughfare that the county just can't wait to develop into the same cookie cutter mixed use crap construction development as they've put everywhere else they can force one in. This property is large enough, and unencumbered by little pieces to put together. And yes, as long as we subsidize soccer, la Crosse, frisby, golf (especially golf as the rest of us can't touch their grass), walking, biking, hiking, etc. We can subsidize an equestrian facility too. Especially one that sees heavy use as community green space as well, ie soccer, football, scout camps , state fair. Just what are the subsidies for the parkway trails, or playgrounds. You compare 5k per park space to 7k for but does that include expenditures related to non equestrian activities as well. How about comparing building maintenance budgets? Or how about walking/ biking path maintenance, including security?

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    1. Karen, we will look at all of these things. I want to make sure that property stays open space. I think the county has some tough decisions - either we sink some serious money into upgrading the EP, or we change it to a less expensive use that can benefit more people. We will be talking more about this in April.

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  11. So I suffer with anxiety and depression and my horses are very important to me and whoever else is in this community and to see this park have such a down fall is depressing for myself and others I hope we will be able to keep this place and make it a better place too. I've been riding here for years and enjoy it whenever I'm able to ride so if we can all come together and help keep this place for the sake of everyone that would be awesome! Thanks to everyone here!

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  12. MS. Winder and the Rest of the Salt Lake County Council,

    I ask that you please reconsider moving the Salt Lake County Equestrian park from the current location. This is a facility that is highly cherished and loved by so many families not just within our county and buy by neighboring counties as well.

    I understand the concern of if taxpayer dollars should be used to fund the facility. I have also reviewed the budget sheets and while I would agree that it does seem like a lot of money is being allocated for the park. I also see a lot of money being allocated for various other programs throughout the county that my family has never been involved with, but we don’t complain about it.

    I will agree that there are other facilities and parks that might make more money but I have never seen an equestrian park that was built to generate revenue for the county. The equestrian park is what we would call a quality of life establishment. This facility is constantly being used for great events throughout the year, including numerous youth programs such as 4-H and FFA.

    I will say that I believe that we can get a lot more use out of the facility, however the current management company (SMG) should not be the ones to facilitate your events here. I have had conversations with other Expo centers and Equestrian facilities across the country that used to be managed by SMG and they have all told me that SMG did not properly manage the grounds and or schedule meaningful events that were of benefit to the facility. I don’t know what the contract looks like between SMG and SLCO but I am sure it isn’t cheap and that a good portion of the money that is costing the taxpayers is being fed directly to SMG.

    I grew up in South Jordan and Riverton and am now raising my own family in the area. With all of the booming growth over the past several years we are quickly losing our agricultural roots, which as a father and member of this once great community I am sad to see the change. Please consider meeting with members of the community that utilize the park on a daily and weekly basis it has meaning to us. If you take the park away, where are we to move our programs too?? The state fairgrounds is not a good choice.

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    1. I appreciate your concerns and know this is very difficult. We are exploring other options and will have more info in April.

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  13. I love that arena. It need to stay.

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  14. The equestrian park is an incredible asset to the community. South Jordan can claim some of the highest property values in the Salt Lake valley, in part because of the open, rural, manicured feel that it has maintained as it has developed over the past several decades. The equestrian fascility has been a show piece of this community. In addition to the 4h programs it supports, and the horse owners (from all over the state) who are able to use this facility, it also hosts BMX racing and other sporting events, polo events, and the county fair. Yes, the fair could be relocated to the state fair grounds (in a sketchy part of town - to which I wouldn't want to take my kids). But replacing the facility or selling the land would not only take away opportunities for kids who grow through 4h animal programs, but also it would hamstring businesses in South Jordan that have relied for many years on the presence of the equestrian park. The large animal clinic, private riding stables near by, IFA in Riverton to name a few. The county has made a great investment in the development of this facility - it has been an investment in maintaining the character of South Jordan, a city who's prosperity helps support the county. Horse owners and non-horse owners alike should be proud of the Equestrian Park, for what it represents and how it helps improve the feel and value of our community. There are low or no-cost improvements that could help in the cost analysis. There are ways to save money in the maintenance of the facility (inefficient lighting and heating of the indoor arena during low traffic times), better and more accessable scheduling to make it easier for those who would like to purchase passes and plan a visit. Whether the management comoany you've hired has a good track record elsewhere does not necessarily translate to good management in his case.
    At any rate, it is too simplistic to look at a balance sheet to see if the facility by itself is profitable. It has greatly contributed the "profitability" of our town and indeed the south valley. Sometimes you need to look at a cost as an overall investment in a community. South Jordan is a highly desirable to place to live in large part because of the small town, open feel it still maintains. This is why we chose to raise my family here. When you count the cost please also take into account the history of the area, the economic prosperity that comes to the community (in the form of related businesses, property values, and money being spent around town when people come for an event).
    Please keep the Equestrian Park!

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  15. Horrible idea to get rid of this. I am not a horse owner but have been there multiple times. The BLM does horse auctions there. The circus. I see soccer games & LaCrosse games played there often.

    Do YOU have personal gain I'm seeing this property ceased and sold as "prime real estate"? This would be a community loss!

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    1. Nope. No personal gain. Just a desire to be a good steward over tax dollars. We will find other places to have the circus. My hope is that we make sure much of that land remains open space, no matter what happens.

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  16. Obviously you know nothing about horse show facilities and my guess is that you inflated many of the numbers to get people scared. Just fyi, in order to have a horse show, which does bring in money, you need empty stalls for those who are traveling to stall their horses. Generally a horse show will bring in horses for a 4-5 night stay. When the facility courts horse associations to hold their shows at the facility, the facility will generate more income. Maybe the managers really aren't doing the job they should be because they have people behind them like you.

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    1. Michelle, you're right. I don't know much about horse show facilities. (I did live next to horses once!) I didn't inflate the numbers, I posted the actual budget numbers from SMG and the SL County budget.

      I'm just a council member, and don't play a part in the management piece.

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  17. I am a horse owner that utilizes this park and have to say that we are already so limited on where we can take our horses and enjoy them. This will be a huge upset for myself and a lot of other people that I know! This park is only in this position because of poor poor management so why doesn't the city fix that piece and leave our park right where it is!!!

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  18. Aimee, is there anyway to come to a compromise? I have used the park for many years and can tell you that it does get used for many events/ people than just equestrian users. The polo fields are already used for soccer and football purposes every summer, not to mention motorcross also uses the facility. In a post you wrote above you mention finding another place for the salt lake county 4h to move to. My question for you is where? Do you know how many children participate? About 300 children participate give or take a few depending on the year. A regular 4h show is an all day event ( starting at 8am to usually 6pm) using 3 arenas and a warm up arena. There is not another facility in the arena that is big enough to accommodate this large program. I would also like to ask you how you know who uses the facility? For the last two years I have used the facility more times than I can count, every time I have tried to pay to use the facility and every time there is no one to accept it. I have also called on several occasions in attempt to rent the indoor arena with some friends of mine this winter. I have left my name, number, and the reason I'm calling. Four months later No one has ever called me back. The outside company you have hired may have done exceptional work in the past but it is not reflected here. I would also like to point out that equestrains pay taxes too, shouldn't we have something that benefits us? As for the compromise I mentioned above I offer you this... Close down the race track and arenas 4-5 this area is used the least by a majority of the equestrians. This new space could then be used for parks or other new ideas you might have in mind. Next Repurpose the permanent boarding into temporary boarding for show use. I feel this step is key to solving a lot of problems and will reduce the overall maintenance of the park. Then leaving the remaining property and arenas for equestrian use. I would also consider finding another company that can focus its efforts on the equestrian park (just an idea). This idea not only allows equestrians to keep their beloved park but also makes it something everyone can use, a good compromise is one where not every party is completely happy.

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  19. Thanks for your comments. Until the mayor's office brings forward some recommendations in April, I'm not sure what will happen to the EP. Your comments will all be taken into account, and I'm happy to pass along some of the great suggestions to our community development team. Hang tight... no decisions have been made yet. We will keep you posted!

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    1. Hahaha MOST ski resorts here are ON government land. Shouldn't you know that as a Government official?

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    2. ...and the county directly subsidizes youth ski programs which COST THE COUNTY MONEY WITHOUT ANY FINANCIAL RETURN. And yet we do it. Because it enriches the quality of life in our community. Please learn more about what the EP means in our community. Talk to people who's lives are are affected by it. And realize that it benefits everyone in the community. Hold your management company accountable for their negligence (acknowledge their failings which have made the facility less efficient), stop comparing it to totally unrelated expenses (Soccer fields? Parks? Seriously? That is disingenuous.) and let's run it more efficiently.

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  20. Aimee, Let me see if my Redneck math and reading skills are accurate. $650,000 plus for salaries and benefits and $175,000 for contract labor and nobody can figure out how the equestrian center is loosing money. Throw in the fact that the indoor arena is overly heated and lighted and you are begging for wasted funding. As with most all government ran programs, the numbers do not add up. Do something honest for the public and state complete and accurate information. I want to know who's salary/benifits are in these numbers and what they contribute to the equestrian center. I would also like to know what contract labor is being used in this number and why. In fact, I would like to know what you have to gain or lose from the equestrian center. Have you spent much time there and visited with the users or are you just crunching black and white numbers at your desk? I am a second generation small business owner that is successful. How do we do it you might ask yourself? It is simple, we do not have a large governing staff that gets benifit from others hard work. Those who work get paid and in turn make money for business. In closing I would like to say that I appreciate the facility and I know with proper management and direction it could be a profitable and usable facility for all. Wishing you well and happiness. TM

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  21. Ms. Newton -

    I would like to echo other suggestions that would protect this wonderful park and increase the revenue:

    Put the management of the park out to bid. The first rule of property management is that if you are not able to meet your budget, you are not managing the property properly. As a property manager, and an equestrian, I can see many things and many ways the current management is missing out on revenue (including being lackadaisical about collecting fees).

    Next, I'd like to address a point from your post: The way you phrase it, you don't want to subsidize EVERYONE's recreation, which indicates you are okay with funding SOME people's recreation. I'd like to know whose recreation you are okay with subsidizing.

    Please also be aware of the groups you are targeting. Horses groups, lacrosse players, soccer players, dog show groups, BMX groups, circuses, etc. Horses in particular are a huge luxury item. A person must have to have land, facilities, and vehicles to support them. The equestrian population you are targeting are probably not your average tax payers. In general, we proportionately own more land and we own more vehicles, and we pay higher taxes. Removing the only covered place to use said luxury items would decrease the over all quality of life in Salt Lake County.

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  22. What other park can a family have a child in a Soccer game another in a BMX race and another getting a horse riding lessen all on the same Saturday afternoon? Not to mention enjoying a horse race with the family. This facility is as versatile as it gets and something we should all want to keep!!

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  23. Is there a facility access/usage fee? Would it be reasonable to assess that fee or consider fee adjustment?

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    1. There is supposed to be, however management is never around to collect it, and there isn't a place to leave it.

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    2. There is a usage fee and people pay a lot of money to use this facility. My club personal spends in the thousands of dollars each year. to use it.

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  24. you post the budget and profits and expenditures for the Equestrian park. for comparison why not show what the county spends on the Rec. centers Golf courses ect. Also when the county ran the Equestrian park they did it for far less then SMG why.

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  25. Moving the fair and 4H/FFA programs to SL fair park seems like a worse option to me as it is in far worse shape than the south Jordan facility...last year they threatened to cancel because the buildings there are so dilapidated! As a 4H Leader, FFA supporter, mom of kids who show horses in the UHJA horse shows, mini riders 4H group, 4H, barrel racer and former south Jordan resident, I understand this issue has many sides and opinions. I urge you to please NOT shut this facility down! Please look at all other options to make this facility profitable! There are so few facilities left to ride horses as it is, but this is the only indoor facility that can host large shows. Please don't take it away. No, not everyone rides horses...but I don't play soccer either. I don't enjoy the Fine Arts, but feel it should be there for those who do enjoy it. Let's put our heads together and figure out a way to keep this facility open and paying for itself. Once we lose equestrian facilities, they never come back...let's look at how this facility got here in the first place. I used to show 4H in Murray before getting run out of there years ago...now we're being run out of here. Please tell me where we will go...you talk about keeping it "open space" that's not good enough, we need a facility to ride in that's safe and accessible. There are already parks to enjoy, but nowhere else for us to ride like this facility. Please, let's come up with a better solution than getting rid of it!

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  26. This is the city of South Jordan, as well as all the surrounding cities and developers fault. Ever since they orchestrated the "blighting" of the land where the District is and the construction of high density housing, starting with Daybreak (which required changing the city regulations for space around homes and street setback laws), the decline of horse property has left the beautiful open space of the County park at greater and greater risk because less and less people have horses now. The county property was created BECAUSE it was much wanted and used in the past...just like the zoo and libraries, and public swimming pools...none of which I use much but pay for. I will never forgive South Jordan leaders for what they did to our once beautiful city. I don't go to the zoo, but I pay for that. I'm forced to pay for Public Education, which costs millions and millions yet only gives back in esoteric ways, never in profits. I guess that's what the County Fair grounds do for me as well...it gives back to me in ways money can't buy...simply by being green grass, horses, and what little is left of "country" in my city. This is much like the fight to keep Mulligans, which is also subsidized and not profitable enough, but the thought of losing the green open space is horrific, especially since South Jordan allowed developers to destroy the natural beauty and wildlife habitat that was once along the Jordan River and is now a bunch of office buildings. I WANT to pay for the county fair grounds and horse stalls and ALL of it even though I don't use it accept at fair time, BUT I recognize it's currently a financial sinking ship. So instead of just trying to bail it out by turning it into more soccer fields (gag) let's ADD soccer fields or just allow the soccer players to use the big front lawn along 11400 S. They use my neighborhood park all the time and we have NO public toilets, and my poor neighbors have kids all soccer season knocking on their doors to use a bathroom. Better they go play on the big field which is bigger than my park and then the city won't threaten to build a public bathroom at our tiny park thus inviting child molesters to hang out and cause other issues. I'm glad you're committee is looking at other options. Maybe you can look at the fair grounds, in it's current state, as a car that is short two tires and needs some serious engine work, but once ALL the parts are in place (which means keeping the goods one in tact...aka county fair, 4-H, horse stalls) than it will be economically sound and run beautifully living up to it's full purpose. PLEASE don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

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  27. First off I would like to say while the park is mainly used as a equestrian facility there are still MANY other non-equestrian activities that go on here and I would like to know how those factored into the very very very vague budget outline you have posted. Don’t forget the people wanted this park built otherwise it would not have even been built or maintained all these years. I also do not believe what you say about this park having little economic benefit to the area around it, I personally have spent lots of money at local stores, gas stations and restaurants on my visits to the Park. It’s so easy to make the numbers look like they are in favor of your agenda so why not be truly honest with the people. Show a more detailed budget and while you are at it why not show just exactly how much the subsidies are for this one park against ALL other subsidies? County fairs, Stock Shows, Rodeos, Horse Racing, Horse Shows, ect have been family fun events for a very long time not to mention part of our cultural heritage and I would like to understand why you are so eager to push them out?
    It seems like every time I turn around we are losing more and more of our rural roots. Beautiful valuable farm land is being turned into subdivisions and shopping centers and the few that manage to hold onto their ground eventually get pushed out because neighbors don’t like the “smell” of the animals. Mountain trails being closed off to everything but hikers because horses and ATVs do too much “damage”. Public livestock facilities are being closed down or neglected because of funding issues or they are seen as only usable for a small group of people and private faculties are closing down because they are being pushed out for development or limiting access because of liability issues. I feel like people are so caught up in the convince of city life they have forgotten how important the agricultural community is. Look back through history and see how important and useful horses were! We owe so much to them and yet because they are no longer a key to our survival they are just a recreational preference and no longer important? Wrong! There are still so many people in Salt Lake County, outside Salt Lake County and even out of state that believes this Equestrian Center is worth it. To my knowledge there are no equestrian faculties that even come close to what this one has to offer anywhere near here. Where are all the people who use this facility supposed to go or are you just going to tell those taxpayers they are SOL? You recommend moving all horse related activities to the State Fair from my visit to the State Fair last fall their Equestrian Park is in far worse shape and not nearly as large and accommodating. If you really stop to really think about all of the families (both horse owners and non-horse owners) that benefit from this facility the answer it simple it is worth keeping! We don’t need a stunning state of the art $854 Million Dollar park we just need a FUNCTIONAL FACILITY! Anyone that has dealt with the current management know that it is anything but functional! I do believe that some competent management can better utilize this amazing park would make a big difference.

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  28. First off I would like to say while the park is mainly used as a equestrian facility there are still MANY other non-equestrian activities that go on here and I would like to know how those factored into the very very very vague budget outline you have posted. Don’t forget the people wanted this park built otherwise it would not have even been built or maintained all these years. I also do not believe what you say about this park having little economic benefit to the area around it, I personally have spent lots of money at local stores, gas stations and restaurants on my visits to the Park. It’s so easy to make the numbers look like they are in favor of your agenda so why not be truly honest with the people. Show a more detailed budget and while you are at it why not show just exactly how much the subsidies are for this one park against ALL other subsidies? County fairs, Stock Shows, Rodeos, Horse Racing, Horse Shows, ect have been family fun events for a very long time not to mention part of our cultural heritage and I would like to understand why you are so eager to push them out?
    It seems like every time I turn around we are losing more and more of our rural roots. Beautiful valuable farm land is being turned into subdivisions and shopping centers and the few that manage to hold onto their ground eventually get pushed out because neighbors don’t like the “smell” of the animals. Mountain trails being closed off to everything but hikers because horses and ATVs do too much “damage”. Public livestock facilities are being closed down or neglected because of funding issues or they are seen as only usable for a small group of people and private faculties are closing down because they are being pushed out for development or limiting access because of liability issues. I feel like people are so caught up in the convince of city life they have forgotten how important the agricultural community is. Look back through history and see how important and useful horses were! We owe so much to them and yet because they are no longer a key to our survival they are just a recreational preference and no longer important? Wrong! There are still so many people in Salt Lake County, outside Salt Lake County and even out of state that believes this Equestrian Center is worth it. To my knowledge there are no equestrian faculties that even come close to what this one has to offer anywhere near here. Where are all the people who use this facility supposed to go or are you just going to tell those taxpayers they are SOL? You recommend moving all horse related activities to the State Fair from my visit to the State Fair last fall their Equestrian Park is in far worse shape and not nearly as large and accommodating. If you really stop to really think about all of the families (both horse owners and non-horse owners) that benefit from this facility the answer it simple it is worth keeping! We don’t need a stunning state of the art $854 Million Dollar park we just need a FUNCTIONAL FACILITY! Anyone that has dealt with the current management know that it is anything but functional! I do believe that some COMPENTENT management can better utilize this amazing park would make a world of difference!

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  29. My name is Beverley Heffernan, I cannot seem to reset the comment option from 'unknown,' and I live in Sandy Utah. As a horse owner since 1965, I must point out to you that I, too, pay taxes for many things I don't use, schools (my kids are grown), soccer fields, parks,
    golf courses, tennis courts, and much more. And I'm fine with that, it's for the overall good of our community, but as a taxpaer I expect some support for things I need, too. Horse owners are a minority in this country these days- fewer than 1% of the US population- but we too are entitled to an appropriate level of taxpayer support for the facilities we need in order to enjoy our horses. You also need to carefully consider the economic impacts of your actions on the myriad industries and small businesses that support the care and use of horses.

    I urge you to include horse owners at the table during your deliberations- I truly hope your minds aren't already made up without thoughtful consideration of those would would be affected by repurposing the equestrian park. If you involve the horse industry and horse community in your studies, I am confident that a meaningful path forward for equestrian and other appropriate uses of the current facilities can be established.

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  30. Tax dollars have always paid for education, libraries, roads and parks and trails. These things enhance the quality of life for the MAJORITY. Tax dollars paid for your education and now you are paying for someone else. If you don't use parks, libraries, or trails you still have to pay for them because they are fundamentals for the MAJORITY.

    Society cannot afford to subsidize every hobby. I am a golfer. And I would love it if society would subsidize my golfing. My friends would love taxes to subsidize their skiing. We golfers and skiiers spend money in our community at restaurants, hotels too. Lots of dollars. And our hobbies make us more healthy. But I never hear golfers or skiiers demand tax dollars subsidize them. Horse owners should be the same... as they too are in the minority (1% of the population). And as Rebecca Jewkes pointed out wealthy.

    Her comment"Horses in particular are a huge luxury item. A person must have to have land, facilities, and vehicles to support them. The equestrian population you are targeting are probably not your average tax payers". I agree with. They probably are wealthy. And could afford their own facilities, without the government doing it for them. Or pay more rental dollars to ensure the facilities run in the black, like golf courses do. To my knowledge none of the government funded equestrian centers in Utah run in the black.

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    1. Wrong. Not wealthy. Horses traditionally been an integral part of the community in the south west valley. There is still a lot of horse property in the surrounding area, and residents who have owned horses there for decades. Children borrow horses to participate in 4h programs, and share trailers to get them where hey need to go. The Equestrain grounds are a later addition (the race track has been there much longer) as land that was usable for horse began to diminish because of rapid housing and business development. There is no other facility. And with the high cost of land in the area, I doubt a private facility would be a possibility. This facility has filled a need for MANY people over the years, NOT just horse owners. On any given weekend the polo field is full of lacrosse teams, soccer teams and races. The indoor facility hosts BMX races, expos and the county fair. You may have noticed in other comments above horse owner WANT to pay more to use the facility. But the management company has been so negligent it's almost impossible to find anyone or any way to pay, and their scheduling information is notoriously inaccurate. ThIs discussion needs to begin with a critical evaluation of management and making the facility run more efficiently, NOT whether the facility is crucial to the community.

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  31. Society has always paid for education, roads, libraries, parks and trails. These things enhance the lives of the MAJORITY. The majority in Utah are families with children. Your education was paid by someone else with tax dollars. Now you pay it forward to the next person. If you don't use libraries, parks trails, you still pay for them because the MAJORITY does. Horse owners are not the majority. They are 1% of the population. If they have a government funded facility, then they should keep it in the black at all times. And always pay full price for their rentals. Not not expect discounts or to be subsidized. That is what golfers do. That is what skiers do. I am a golfer and would love it, if the golf course would subsidize my hobby with tax dollars. That would be amazing. But if they did and the golf course was losing 900k per year, I wouldn't expect that they would continue to keep it open, and have taxpayers bear the cost. There are many equestrian funded facilities in Utah ....i.e. Ogden, Brigham City, Heber, Salina,Tremonton, Herriman, Oakley, Eagle Mountain, Spanish Fork to name a few. And none of them run in the black that I am aware of.

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  32. I believe that you have already made up your mind as stated in a couple of your replies above. You state, "I have made up my mind that the EP, as it stands now, is too expensive for taxpayers. Unless someone has a new funding source to keep it going...". So many parks and athletic facilities are subsidized today, and collectively may be used by quite a few local people to those facilities. The EP is used by people from all over the state and beyond. I would suspect that its number count is as significant as a lot of the parks. I really don't believe that you have considered the benefits to the community properly. As stated by another blogger, Equine owners create open space in the form of farms, small ranchettes, and large lots with animal rights, etc. These larger tracts are beneficial to our communities. Equine owners generally pay more property taxes. They (We) hire more services from professionals such as accountants, veterinarians, feed and tack products, labor, and repair services (automotive and construction) etc. Generally, they buy more high end vehicles (trucks, suburbans, etc.) in order to pull the trailers used to haul the horses to events. Not everyone can afford new and they buy used, which generate more repair jobs. Most of these products and services are purchased within the Salt Lake County, despite what your consultants have told you. I have friends who live outside of the area who always stay at a local hotel, dine out, buy gas and shop. They do this for several race dates each year and the horse expo.

    I can't believe that you say you don't want to eliminate the equestrians. If you read your comments, they are very one sided, in favor of closing the park due to the revenue shortfall. You repeat this mantra several times. If the park can bring up the revenue in the short term to the same subsidy level as other parks, those using the park should be allowed enough time to work on other sources of revenue to become subsidy free. This is too great of a community asset to be dismantled. I would encourage you to attend a few events as the guest of the different UQHA & 4H associations that use this facility. Are you aware of the impact of Agriculture's impact on the Utah Economy? There are thousands of Equine owners in the State of Utah. Living next to a few horses isn't enough to form an adequate position on the Salt Lake County Equestrian Park. Generally speaking, farm kids and those dealing with animals usually get in less trouble than other youth who have very few chores today. Equine are great therapy animals. In one of the blogs it was suggested that horse ownership is akin to being elitist. Nothing could be further from the truth for many of the people I know who love horses and sacrifice much in order to own a couple.

    Why are we so bent on taking away the Equine Park from our children who do not participate in baseball, football, or soccer? We need to be a diverse community providing opportunities for all of our children.

    Thanks for your consideration.

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  33. Is the $665,000 salaries listed only pay people that work only at Equestrian Center?

    ~Tami Evans
    West Jordan

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  34. Aimee, you have taken it upon yourself to be the fiscal steward of the County Council as it applies to the Equestrian Park. Does your background, having lived across the street from horses, really give you any understanding of how important the EP is to those of us who use it? If the EP were to be gone tomorrow it would not affect you or your family in any meaningful way. You may not have a vested interest in what happens to the EP but you have nothing invested in keeping it either.

    District 3 Consituent

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    1. Thanks for your comments! Please see my most recent blog post on my new blog: http://slco3.weebly.com/a-new-perspective-on-equestrian-park.html

      I have had some great opportunities to learn more about the Equestrian Park and better understand how important it is to all of you.

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  35. Please see my new blog and most recent blog post about the Equestrian Park: http://slco3.weebly.com/a-new-perspective-on-equestrian-park.html

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  36. Dear County Council woman,
    I would like to start by saying I have lived in Salt Lake county for 17 years. I also vote in every election (just a reminder).
    I would like to start by pointing out that the Salt Lake County Equestrian Center is a multiply use facility. Unlike the Golf Courses you continue to refer to. To compare the management of the Golf Courses to the management of the Equestrian center is akin to the preverbal phrase “Compare apples to oranges”.
    Since Oct 2015 this is a list of event that are “not” equestrian related. I am sure that this is not a complete list of all the events that have been held there.
    Since I do live in the area (just up the street actually) I do get to see first-hand how the facility is being used. It does seem to have events there almost every weekend especially in the warmer months of the year. I have included a short of events that are not Equestrian related events that contribute to the community.
    Great Basin Fiber Show
    Utah Pheasant Show
    4-H Livestock Show
    RAD Canyon BMX
    Utah High School Mixed Ultimate Frisbee State Championship
    Jordan World Circus 2016
    IALHA National Andalusians Show 2016
    Intermountain Kennel Club 2016
    SnoWest Intermountain Snowmobile Show
    The Carvention featured classic American-made automobiles
    Dutch Oven Society
    Utah Heavy Athletics Club
    In reading the posts on your blog page, the two news articles that are related to the subject of the Equestrian Center, it very clear that very few of the Salt Lake County residents want to get rid of the facility.
    I have been searching news articles and blog sites, I have yet to find (with an exception of a very few) that want to repurpose the location or the facility.
    You do seem to have a personal stack in closing the facility (just my impression), It does raise the question though. It also begs the question “Who are you truly representing, we the people or something else”?
    If you are as Fiscally responsible as you are portraying by questioning the use and contribution of the Equestrian Center to the community. Why are you not putting the same effort in to a few of the other budget items??
    For example:
    Grant programs Fund $30,513,400.00
    Mill Creek Rec Center LBA PMT $653,607.00
    Fine Arts Capital Improvements $1,178,175.00
    Why are these a better use of our tax dollars than the Equestrian Center???????
    A very concerned tax paying citizen of Salt Lake County

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